Modified is more versatile than full. You can shoot steel, and better patterns for the new heavy shot turkey loads. And better for flushing birds.
12 gauge may have an advantage over 3" 20 gauge for duck hunting with steel.

 

Is your barrel chambered for 3" shells?

 

I know I have told this story before but it fits here.

My Dad, who has passed away, Never shot anything but a 20 gauge Browning auto five with a vent rib and full choke.

That was at Dove, Quail, Ducks, Geese, or whatever. Now that being said he was a crack shot with a shotgun. I have seen him knock Geese down with that browning with steel shot when our guide couldn't hit em with a 10 gauge.

Now that may be anecdotal but its the truth. I consider myself a pretty good shot with a shotgun but I shoot a Remy 1100 12 gauge with screw in chokes depending on the game. I do have a 410 for dove and quail but rarely use it.

For what its worth.

 

Is your barrel chambered for 3" shells?

Yes, it is. It's just the, now standard Illion, 20 gauge single shot.

Owned 2 of the Gardner's back in the 90's in 12 gauge modified. Gave one to a friend that needed one at the time. He may still be carting it around on his boat though hard to say all these years later. He got a kick out of firing flares out of it.

Despite whatever shortcomings they may have, I really like the way the single shots balance and handle.

 

No big difference to me at all between my 12 and 20 except weight of the gun. Most all I hunt with mine are rabbits, squirrels and doves. Both are reloaded with either 7/8 or 1 ounce of #5 or #7.5 shot to 1200 fps. It doesn't matter which shotgun I pick up, they both shoot the same.

I also hunt turkeys with the 12 and 3" reloads of #5. Never tried the 20 because I wanted the heavier payload of the 12 for the turkeys.

 

Fifty years ago when we still actually had pheasants in this state the 20s couldn't hold a candle to the 12s. Lots of changes along the way in those 50 years, wads, powders, ect, and no pheasants. The 20 today is almost on par with the 12.

 

Comparing the 20 to the 12 will be very similar to comparing the 12 3.5" to the 10. The 20 can be loaded up to some 12 gauge loads but the smaller diameter means the shot is strung out longer than the 12 with its larger diameter. Doesn't mean doodly for stationary targets like deer, turkeys, and game. For wingshooting though, a longer shot string means the pellets are strung out more horizontally as the barrel is swung with the target, which in turn means less pellets hit the target as some are trailing behind. The larger bore means more pellets hit the target at the same instant due to a shorter shot column. Doesn't matter if you can hit em in the head, but it does translate to less average effectiveness if all other variables are equal.

Do a Google search on 10ga vs 12ga 3.5. It's been explained and argued so many times that you should find enough info to understand how the 20 and 12 will compare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Years ago I bought a 3 inch double 20 and killed a lot with it including ducks and geese BUT when the steel shot requirement came along the 20 stayed in the house and the 3 inch 12 came with me. for small game and birds give me the smaller gauges. I hate steel shot At 50 yards with slugs I don't think a deer would know the difference.

 

i never really found any difference between the two , for the hunting i did anyhow.
in fact, i got rid of all my 12 gauge shotguns, single and pumps, in favor of my 20's
20's are all i own now.. they work for me, screw in rem chokes do right by me and i have not felt under gunned.

 

I never shoot more then 1 1/4 oz of shot anyway so there is little difference since my 20 has a 3" chamber. However, I do like the extra length of barrel on my 12 for the balance and I'm told that if you shoot the same amount of shot out of two different gauges the larger one should pattern better since it has a shorter shot column in it. Never bothered to pattern them though.

 

I never shoot more then 1 1/4 oz of shot anyway so there is little difference since my 20 has a 3" chamber. However, I do like the extra length of barrel on my 12 for the balance and I'm told that if you shoot the same amount of shot out of two different gauges the larger one should pattern better since it has a shorter shot column in it. Never bothered to pattern them though.

Shorter shot column doesn't mean it will "pattern" better, it means when you are swinging on a bird/rabbit or ? , the column will be shorter and that = a denser pattern on the target. (assuming YOU are on the target) The bird flies through a "denser" pattern, because the column is shorter...

If the target is stationary, it doesn't matter much as the longer column will all get to the target anyway...

DM

 

Here's an interesting test that was conducted at Federal's test lab that sheds some light on the subject.


At 40 yards (with equal shot charges) the 12 does beat the 20 for number of pellets on target, but surprisingly (to me anyway) the shot string lengths were almost identical.


http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2013/08/truth-about-shogun-ammo.


Also, going up on size larger shot shot in the 20 gauge markedly improved the pattern! Don't know if that would work every time, or if it was just that particular gun liked the larger shot size better??

 

Also, going up on size larger shot shot in the 20 gauge markedly improved the pattern! Don't know if that would work every time, or if it was just that particular gun liked the larger shot size better??

There lies the big problem with shot guns... You never know "for sure" how any brand of ammo or any shot size will pattern in YOUR gun, until YOU try it!! Same with slugs and buck shot, you must try all the choices in YOUR gun!...

DM

 

I grew up hunting deer with hounds and shooting them with buckshot. I never saw a 3" gun in any gauge back then. Never knew anyone who preferred a 20 gauge for buckshot since 1,0, and 00 buckshot were not offered in 20 gauge.

A lot of quail hunters back then used 16 and 20 gauge double barrel shotguns. I have a 20 OU that is an excellent bird gun and fun to shoot. I don't feel under gunned in a dove field. Never shot a 3" 20 shell so don't know about them at all. If I needed a 3" 20 I'd surely take a 12 out of the closet instead.

 

I've always wanted to love the 20 gauge, but found I never could. The 12 hits with authority, the 20 does not. Large birds hit with the 12 crumple or tumble in mid-flight, not so with the 20. For me at least, I feel as if I have an extra 10 yards of range with the 12. There is a real world difference.
Mannyrock

 

Check out some black powder sites. I'm talking sidelocks, both flint and cap. The most popular gauges are 20 and smaller. They are used for everything. Rabbits, squirrel, grouse, turkey, deer, and bear. There was one fellow who would shoot bison with his Tulle 20 ga.. I have never seen the need of a 12 ga. ever since I decided to scope My Ithaca Deerslayer. That thing would lift me off the bench upon firing. This was when I was in my 30's and a 225 lb. truck driver. That is one gun I don't miss.

 

I've always wanted to love the 20 gauge, but found I never could. The 12 hits with authority, the 20 does not. Large birds hit with the 12 crumple or tumble in mid-flight, not so with the 20. For me at least, I feel as if I have an extra 10 yards of range with the 12. There is a real world difference.
Mannyrock

It's the "American" way, ALWAYS blame "operator error" on the gun/ammo/cartridge/bullet/gauge or something else! lol

DM

 

The 12 only improves shots due to more shot flying. If you do your part the 20 will do its part. I only have anecdotal evidence now since my Father is gone, but I have seen him hit geese with his browning auto 5 20 gauge that a guide could not hit with a 10 ga.

Does the average guy fair better with a 12 over a 20, Yep. The 20 leaves less room for error. Who wants to be average?

 

As has been said here a number of places in the thread, shot stringing would seem to be the biggest difference. And logically, a 12 bore with a higher payload simply has to put more pellets on target. Or at least we are lead to believe. And has also been said here, much has changed in choke tubes and shotgun shells over the years.

My first shotgun was a Stevens side by side 20 ga. Not to date myself, but, in those days the shells were made of paper/cardboard. Plastics had not entered the picture yet. With that shotgun I shot squirrels, doves, raccoons, rabbits, pheasants, ducks, geese, and even deer with slugs. Being honest, I never felt undergunned, and if I didn't bring home 23 critters to eat out of a box of 25 shells I felt I was doing rather poorly.

Fast forward to a few decades later. The firearms industry has done a remarkable job in getting us hunters to believe that critters have become smarter, more weary, are more difficult to kill. The 16 ga fades from the scene and the 12 bore dominates. With the advent of steel shot after a Loon or two ate a lead fishing sinker and rolled a seven, we were wounding a lot of ducks that would have been stone dead had we been still able to use lead shot.

Not to be left wounding ducks and geese, the gun industry rebirths the 10 bore. And just like magic ducks and geese started to die proper again. 10 Bore sales went up, 12 bore sales started to drop. Taking a hard look at the numbers, the gun industry decides it's time to change things a bit and out comes non other than the 12 ga 3 1/2" Magnum. Capable of equaling the now revered 10 Bore.

There are some problems with this right out of the gate. Shot stringing is one of them. The other issue is the weight of the guns being offered in the new and mighty 3 1/2" chambers. While almost if not all 10 bore guns tip the scales at 10 pounds or better, the new 3 1/2" 12 bores are on frames that were designed for 3" fodder and thus weighed to the light side to be firing 10 bore loads. This resulted in getting one's cranial fluid smashed against their skulls and many a bruised shoulder. If one wants to experience severe pain they need only to fire off a few 3 1/2" "Hoss" loads out of a Messberg Ultimag. And if that does not bring tears to your eyes then try lighting up a few of those 2+ ounce Turkey loads. Flinching is no longer just a rifle thing cause.

While the thread is 20 ga vs 12 ga I felt the 10 bore thing needed to get in the picture because to a degree it helps explain the metrics of shot stringing. If we follow the advice of patterning your shotgun (which by the way IMHO IS sound advice) we can get a visual of what the cloud of pellets looks like at various distances. This is indeed wonderful. ON STATIC TARGETS. It makes little difference to a turkey whether all of the pellets crush his skull on impact, or, 30% of the pellets arrive 3 milliseconds later. He is indeed a dead bird.

Let's assume that you have patterned Ole Betsy at say 40 yards. The standard for such things. And you bear a huge smile as you walk up to the pattern board and discover that it has more holes than the business end of a salt shaker. And, even better, they're ALL in that magical 30 inch circle just like the script says. Man it just don't get any better. And it won't, so long as you just shoot at static game.

In order to get a true picture of what goes on in the wing shooting game, one must MOVE the pattern board at the speed of the game being hunted, and the distance it is hunted at. Think about this for a minute. A mallard duck at say30 yards, flying left to right at 25 miles an hour, while you move the gun what you consider to be the proper lead, and KEEP THE GUN MOVING, and finally hit the trigger. You'll soon discover that your juicy perfect pattern is quite oblong and shaped more like a football. If you are one of the more gifted wingshooters you just may have killed that duck.

But like most average shooters, a good string of misses or cripples gets the gray matter working. Ah, not enough pellets to get er done. Well true to a degree if you are fringing them. So let's move up the payload, move up in bore size. Just throw more at em and something good is bound to happen. Right? And the ammo companies are the recipients of the good as you drop more cash to punch holes in the air.

And to make matters even worse, shot shell technology has evolved so that ducks and geese can be killed stone dead out to 70 yards with the right choke combination. Uh Huh. I want to meet that man that can do that on a regular basis, not the lucky pellet on occasion one either. Assuming that this is a possible feat, one has to imagine what the picture looks like as an unseen duck pops in at 20 yards right in front of said duck hunter. If, he is capable of hitting that duck with a 30-06 rifle he will probably kill it with the shotgun as well. That's about what the pattern diameter will be with the high tech shells and super whammie choke tube.

IMO, the industry has gone to far. Consult any worthy after market choke company. They'll tell you right up front, don't exceed 1500 fps velocity, NOT to be used with Federal's Flight Control Wads. Do NOT use ported choke tubes with Hex Blindside or Flying Saucer Black Cloud shells. Don't use anything larger than BB...... And the list goes on. It gets to a point where you don't know which tube to use what shell. Well I know of no one that has gotten blown up by any of the DON'T infractions, you can rest assured that the patterns are blown.

I think old ideas die hard with us hunters. Well, at least they do for me. Early last Fall I happened to be in my local Gun Shop and chanced upon a Benelli SBE. It was a used gun in mint condition and the chap that owned it needed $700 Frogskins for it. I couldn't write out a check fast enough.

Since most, no, all of my duck and goose hunting over the past 10 years has been with a Browning BPS 10 bore I figured to be in the game I needed to be shooting 3 1/2" shells to stay in the game. Ho Boy, WAY off base. Sure, shot stringing played into it, but moreso the brutal recoil going from a 10 pound gun to a 7 pound gun firing basically the same payloads. I did some wicked missing there for a spell. The great lightbulb went off when I managed to scratch down a Black Duck and it was flopping around about 40 yards out on the water. Leveled off and cut loose. And a LINE, not a pattern went straight out to that duck. I might as well have been shooting a rifle.

I pulled out the Mod tube and put in the Imp Cyl and dropped down to 3" 1 3/8 ounces of No4 Steel. And just like magic, the next flock of Mallards that came in, 3 of them didn't leave.

So, in the study of 20 vs 12 bore, vs 10 bore vs about anything. The thing to keep in mind is a rifle is a rifle firing a single projectile. A shotgun is designed to fire a number of pellets in somewhat of a spread to allow for human error and still hit. When the shotgun becomes as critical as to have to AIM it rather than POINT it I do believe it makes little differenace as to the gauge. It's gonna result in a miss if we shoot a shotgun as it was intended way back when.

And that's my 2 cents worth on the subject ;D

 

I have and do hunt with both. The 12 is more gun and in most cases a better defense gun the 20 will work but it is a sporting gun. 12's kill farther because they can send more shot down range keeping patterns full longer. 12's have more shell options. The longer the shot column the more strung out the pattern. A 12 will recoil less (kick) shooting the same load as a 20. IMHO shooting a 20 at ducks only kicks more and gives a poorer pattern. The exception might be hevi shot . maybe.

 

With the advent of steel shot after a Loon or two ate a lead fishing sinker and rolled a seven, we were wounding a lot of ducks that would have been stone dead had we been still able to use lead shot.

ain't that the truth!

 

Just a tad more on patterns.. I would venture to say 90% of the people that hunt anything with a shotgun have never bothered to check the pattern it at the different ranges they shoot at with different ammo types. It can be very enlightening. Especially when you get into larger shot and non lead shot. They react much differently to choke and velocity that smaller lead does. A full choke does not always give the tightest OR best consistent patterns. There are a lot of people that associate higher velocity with longer range which with shotguns is not 100% true either due to what it does to a pattern after a certain point.. Some the problem lends itself to people being very poor judges of distance to begin with.. Just how far away was that duck anyway ? 30 or 50 yards ?????? 40 or 70 yards????

 

......Just how far away was that duck anyway ? 30 or 50 yards ??? ??? 40 or 70 yards? ???

Excellent point! A lot of folks that are good judges of distance fall on their faces when looking over an open expanse of water. I've found that by taking my range finder to the duck bogs I can pick out a tree or two at 40 yards and if a duck flies inside or on that boundary he's in serious trouble. I will admit, I've been tempted to light off on some of those Black Ducks way on the outskirts of 40 yards though ;D

 

All the ducks I've ever shot have been within 25 or 30 yards.
But I have taken a few long shots at high flying dove when I had wished I had a full choke and high brass.

 

I was not raised gunning, nor learned the trap and skeet games. I ended up with some 12s over time and whatever shells were on sale, so they tended to be 7 1/2 x what, 1 1/4 oz? Those 12s abused me in the little patterning and hunting I tried. They sat a lot then got traded off.
Then I got a sgl barrel 20; same deal, buy some economy shells but they had a lighter shot charge. What a difference, I was not abused, was able to comfortably learn the gun and shot enough to learn some things about lead and all.
Got kinda revved and ended up with a SxS and an O/U to find out which felt more natural to me. BTW mine are both light upland guns on real 20ga. Frames not smaller tubes on a heavy, poorly balanced 12 frame. They are sweet!
So, what Im getting at is that I know Im not going after ducks or geese and I am not even likely even going for more than 40yds. so the 20 gives me results without abuse. Works for me and if it works for you stick with it.